Dear Trading Friend, As a reminder, you are getting email from us because you either once asked to go on this Traders Ezine list, or requested info on a trading related subject we normally cover via this communications method, or you are a client of ours. Your email address and other information will be kept confidential per our online Privacy Pledge. Of course, you may opt-off this Traders EZine at any time if you do not find this trading knowledge useful. A few interesting articles follow, and then the status of the Real Success 2 Course, and the Joe Ross email reprints: ------------------------------------ Why People Do Not Make Money Buying and Selling Commodities - W. D. Gann: I have stated in my books many times the market does not beat you, it is your own human weakness that causes you to defeat yourself. The average man or woman nearly always wants to buy low and sell high. The farmer always wants to sell at high prices whatever he produces but he wants to buy what he needs at low prices. The laboring man wants high wages all the time but wants low prices for what he buys to eat and wear. This is a violation of a fundamental economic law and it just will not work. T To make a success in speculation, you cannot expect to buy low and sell high. You will make money when you do exactly the opposite of what the average man or woman wants to do or tries to do, and makes a failure and loses as a result of what they are trying to do. You will make profits when you learn to Buy High and Sell Low. You must learn to follow the trend of prices and realize that they are Never Too High To Buy as Long as the Trend is Up and Never Too Low To Sell as Long as the Trend is Down. ----------------------------------- A Simple Way To Predict Market Turning Points (and impress your friends) - Bob Pelletier (President of CSI): This brief report is designed to advise those who may have an interest in systems, methods, or services which predict market turning points far into the future. If you have been solicited by any firm that does this, you may gain some important insight into this area by reading on. Whether you plan to purchase such a service, system or secret is your personal choice. CSI has no preference for one commercially available procedure over another. We simply wish to point out facts that may be helpful. If I were to tell you to "Pick any date in the future, for any commodity, and I will show you the next turning point that will occur relative to that date." You might think I'm crazy, or strongly doubt my claim. The truth is, that anyone can do this within an accuracy of, say, three days about 70% of the time, or within four days 80 to 90 per cent of the time. The secret depends upon how one defines "turning points". Suppose we define intermediate market swings or turning points to occur about 25 times per year, or twice per month. Since there are about 250 trading days per year, this allows for one turning point per 10 days. With a dart and a calendar into the future, the dart will hit some seven day time interval (the day hit plus or minus three days) each time it is thrown. If turning points occur, on the average, once every 10 days, then there is a 70% chance my dart will include a turning point within three days. Additionally, if I knew that last week there was a definite low, my next turning point will be a peak. I'm not interested in (several years from now); I may not live that long. I can only make money if I can bet on the next immediate turning point for various cycle lengths. There is not enough room in this Newsletter to show how market turning points can be predicted with more reliability, but it is possible to provide an unbiased estimate of the next peak and the next trough for each given predominate cycle period. Using a method which treats peaks independent of troughs can produce a non-regular period between peaks and troughs (a more realistic behavior) for future market cycles. Before spending your hard-earned funds on any system, be careful to discover what you can do under purely chance conditions without it. ----------------------------------- Finally ready for video tape duplication over the Labor Day weekend and shipping next week! After an amazing string of problems the new Real Success 2nd Edition will be finished on Sept 1st. We will not bore you with all the odd details causing this long delay at this time but can assure you the issues were quite serious and time consuming. One positive outcome of this is the finished tapes trading knowledge and taped trades are even better than expected and also the picture and audio quality is much improved over our original 1996 Real Success Trading Course. We also discovered an amazing new sub-set trading method within the basic Real Success methodology which may be used by itself as a great way to potentially sell near the tops of moves and buy near the bottoms. It’s by far the best and most reliable way we have ever seen for trading the larger swings and getting in them very early. To make it up to our patient Real Success 2 clients, we will be sending them an additional knowledge-packed video tape (at no cost) about 2 weeks after you get the new 4-Tape RS2 Course. The bonus tape goes into more detail on a newly discovered and amazing profit-potential sub-set system found within the primary Real Success Methodology, known for now as the Keltner Extreme Trading Method. You still have time to order the new course (and also get the free 5th Tape as a bonus) if you have not already done so. The 2nd Edition Ordering Agreement is here https://www.traders.org/rsorder.htm ---------------------------------- Here are the series of Joe Ross E-Mails you have been expecting. They are from Joe Ross and reprinted with his permission, from myself and also from several CTCN Members regarding Joe. They are really amazing in regards to what I was told and the fact Joe denies most things saying there were people impersonating him for some odd reason! --------------------------------- Hi D, In reply, I don't know which of the Joe Ross books has the Vanilla Hook in it. Once I tried to buy all his (high priced) books but I did not get them as Mrs. Ross wanted to severely overcharge me for S&H, something I really don't like paying due to the principles involved. She wanted to charge me approx 10 times the true S&H costs. It was bad enough Joe wanted to charge excessively for his books, I think almost $200 a book, but also charge a huge mailing cost - way too much, so I never ordered as Mrs. Joe Ross said she would not lower the S&H fees no matter what, even if I cancelled the order, which I did. Like I said, we don't use the Vanilla Hook but I think it may be a Reversal Bar from what I understand, where on a buy signal the low is below the prior bar but the close is above it (I think but not positive). Dave Green - CTCN ----------------------------------- Re: The addition of Joe Ross to Webtrading Opt-In Ezine Mailing List: Hi Joe, Are you the same Joe Ross of Ross Trading or another Joe Ross? Please let us know as it's important. Per your request we put this new email address on the list. Regards, Dave Green ------------------------------- HI DAVE, Long time, no contact. Yes, I'm the same Joe Ross I've always been, only hopefully a bit wiser and a bit more mature. I'm not sure why I am responding to your question and I didn't even realize that you were on my mailing list. Had I known, I don't think I would have sent you a change of address. I have been very disappointed in CTCN. It has become the very thing I cautioned you about when you first started it. Why do you want CTCN and your Website to contain all the filth, hearsay and rumors, that are so abundant in this industry? I had hoped that you would separate yourself from the kinds of rot that one finds in Club 3000. You could have made your site, positive and uplifting. Your website contains unproven dirt about me (mostly written by Bruce Babcock), and I don't appreciate it. You have never bothered to find out the truth about Bruce Babcock's raking of me. Bruce was an egotistical slob, who while posing as a consumer's reporter for traders was at the same time selling systems that didn't work. When Bruce called me up to tell me that he was going to review my book, he also requested my trading statements. I told him at the time, that there were no statements with my name on them. The statements were corporate property, and did not contain my name. He had no business seeing private corporate statements that would not have served as proof that I was the person trading the account. More than that, the other principals in the firm were quite incensed at the time that he would even request something that was absolutely none of his business. If Bruce was going to review the book, he should have reviewed it and not me. I requested that of him, but instead, he decided that I had never traded, because I wouldn't send him the statements. And now you have promulgated his lie via your (webtrading.com) s also a statement on your site that says that I contacted Ken Roberts and that he was my teacher. The fact that Ken Roberts was still wearing short pants when I began trading seems to have alluded you. I have investigated and found out who it was that sent Ken Roberts a letter with the initials 'JR' from Lee's Summit. Little did I know at the time how that would be turned into so-called proof Ken Roberts taught me how to trade. The truth is that a fellow named Alan Skinner, a former associate of mine, did it at the time as a practical joke. Alan (now deceased) worked for me, and was on his own studying Robert's material, not for purposes of trading, but for purposes of marketing. Ken Roberts is a great marketer as you know. Alan wrote to KR and signed the letter with my initials. So Dave, now you know the truth. Will you retract that horrible piece that now inhabits your website? Dave, have you ever read any of my books? If you have, you would know that only someone who has traded for many years could possibly have written them. All I'm asking is that you be fair. There is another side to the story. Best regards, J.R. ---------------------------------- Hi Joe, everything is so odd and weird! Yes, it certainly is and you have some very interesting slants on some of things I wrote. I guess you are a hard man to convince. I really don't want to beat this thing to death, but I'll give it one more try. By the way, it very well could have been 8 yrs ago when I spoke to a Mr. and Mrs. Joe Ross, as I was only guessing when I said approx 5 to 7 yrs ago. Dave Even if it was 8 years ago there is no way my wife would have engaged in a conversation such as you describe. The only other person it could have been was Dee Stone. Maybe you spoke with her. Also, I do recall I called a phone number (I think) in Leander, TX. Remember getting the number and address of one of your ads possibly in Club 3000 or some other publication. You and your wife said you were in Leander but moving to the Bahamas soon. You said you had already been there and purchased a property there and were temporarily back in Texas planning the more permanent move to the Bahamas for your cancer treatments. You also commented how you liked the Bahamas, etc. Dave ----------------------------------- This is a very interesting memory. For one thing, we never purchased any property in the Bahamas nor did we ever intend to. The other thing is that I have never had cancer, don't want to have cancer, and did not go to the Bahamas for treatment of cancer. If I ever do have cancer, I will go to Mexico, not Bahamas. The part about me liking Bahamas is definitely true. I liked it enough to move there, but only to a rented house. I lived there for close to 6 years, and then moved to South Africa, where I currently have a house that I own. It is a beautiful place up in the mountains, and very quiet and peaceful. I originally went there to set up a Ross trading franchise for a friend who died suddenly. He had begun an educational work (he was not a trader) in teaching South Africans about the U.S. markets and how, if they learned to trade, they would have a way out of South Africa and could live and work pretty much where they wanted. When he died, I moved to South Africa and continued the work he started. I now have a master franchisee and three sub-franchises in South Africa. We also cover Zimbabwe from there. The South Africans have done much better than their U.S. wannabe traders. Frankly, it's amazing how quickly they learn, and they do succeed. They are truly motivated. We get them as total novices and train them in the correct way to trade the Markets. As a rule, they are not subjected to all the flap from the U.S. until they already have a firm foundation. --------- In addition, I even mentioned you had cancer in my newsletter and asked my members to pray for you also. Dave --------- That was very kind of you. --------- After that I received a few phone calls from traders who said they had heard about you moving to the Bahamas for a cancer treatment which was banned in the USA, as it was not approved by the FDA. However, they heard you could get the drug overseas. They heard this independently of myself about you. I think even Bruce Babcock heard about your move to the Bahamas for cancer treatment on his own as I recall discussing it with him. Dave --------- That's amazing. It just shows you how the BS can fly. There's an awful lot of it flying around in this industry. But your email is first time I've heard about the cancer rumor. The one who had cancer was Bruce Babcock, not me. ---------- Joe, you referred to your health problems yourself in a 1995 issue of CTCN when you said: “My health has been questionable lately. I ask your readers who believe in prayer to pray for healing for me. Joe Ross. Your believed to be wife, told me how she lived of your excessive S&H fees. Dave --------- That's incredible! It simply does not compute. She said the book revenue went solely to you and she depended on the rip-off S&H fees for her income as she kept that money for herself! Dave --------- Another amazing statement, considering that my wife has never lacked for income and has always handled all the money in our family. I always depend on her for my pocket money. I hate dealing with money and numbers because of my severe dyslexia. I wish I had it all on tape but do remember the conversations like it was yesterday. Plus, the man I talked to who said he was you sounded like a typical middle-aged Southern Gentleman, definitely not someone from Boston, Mass. As you say the Watkins were from. If Watkins was from Boston why would he and his wife be answering your phone in Texas with a non-Massachusetts accent and claiming to be Mr. And Mrs. Joe Ross? It makes no sense at all, Joe! Dave. ---------- You are assuming you called Texas, but perhaps you didn't. When we left Texas, we had the phone forwarded for a year to the Boston number. Neither of the Watkins’ had a Boston accent, and I certainly do not sound like a southern Gentleman. If anything, people spot me as having come from New York, which is true. There are two people that worked in my office besides Bernie Goggins. Dee Stone and Boyd Stone, brother and sister. I don't know why they would pull a prank like that, but it is possible that they did if indeed you were calling Leander, Texas at the time you mention. -------- Plus, why would Mr. Skinner pretend to be you as at the time I don't think you were well-known at all. Dave --------- I didn't say that Alan had pretended to be me. I said he might have. Alan was a practical joker and I can picture him calling Ken Roberts and spoofing him. I can also picture Alan as, after talking to Ken, telling him that he would write him a testimonial letter. Then to top it all off, he signed my name or initials. I've seen that letter in Ken's literature, and it definitely wasn't me. The reason that I suspected it was Alan, is the phrase 'this may very well be the last bastion of true capitalism.' The only person I know who used that phrase often was Alan Skinner. In fact he used it so often that I picked up on it and put it in 'Trading By The Book.' Alan edited 'Trading By The Book.' He had been a stockbroker and for a very short time a trader in futures, particularly the Mexican peso and silver. Alan had the background to be a critical editor of that book. --------- So why would Ken Roberts be impressed somehow being tricked into thinking it was you calling when you were relatively obscure at that time? Dave You assume that Alan was trying to impress Ken. I think he was just pulling Ken's leg. Alan received Ken's literature and showed it to me, and I know for a fact that he spoke by telephone to Ken more than once. I personally never have. --------- Also, Bruce said it was a testimonial letter from you signed J.R. – Lees Summit, MO, not a phone call, again makes no sense at all. Dave It makes sense to me. Ken was and still is always looking for testimonials. I think Alan got a kick out of signing my initials to that testimonial because it would tickle him to think that Ken would put the testimonial of an actual trader in his literature. Plus, you say you had apparently handed over Ross trading many years ago (1992) to Watkins. Yet for many of the last 8 years I have seen various ads for books and seminars etc in various places, all listing the name Ross trading and Joe Ross. Why did you continue to use that name if you were no longer with Ross Trading. Also, why in the world would you hand over a seemingly money making business like Ross Trading over to someone else in the first place? Dave --------- Ross Trading has not ceased to exist during those 8 years. Ron Watkins ran his company as Ross Trading, Inc. When he couldn't make a success out of it, he turned it over to my daughter-in-law, Denise Ross, and it remained Ross Trading, Inc., only domiciled in Texas, not Massachusetts. When I had the company, it was Ross Trading International, Inc. When I moved to the Bahamas, I formed a corporation there called Trading Educators, Ltd. At present, Trading Educators no longer exists other than as an Internet domain name. I have no association with Ross Trading, Inc., other than that I am Denise's father-in-law. I do not run the company and I have no say in the Company. There are times when Denise asks for advice, but she asks others for advice as well. Dave you are in error when you say that Ross Trading is/was a big money making business. It barely supports Denise on the sale of books, but unlike Ron Watkins, Denise is not trying to make a fortune from the business. Ron was, and he advertised heavily. However, the sale of only books did not justify the advertising budget he had. When I had Ross Trading International, the main source of income was not book sales, but seminars. The seminars were in addition to my trading and newsletter. Ron did not have a newsletter, and he did not hold seminars. That was his downfall. Denise does not hold seminars either, but she's looking only for a way to supplement the family income. It works for her through her company, Ross Trading Inc. --------- Joe, this is all real odd and seems like the twilight zone or some really weird science fiction story. A real amazing chain of events. Dave --------- Dave, I think that a lot of what's odd is the way you are interpreting the things I'm telling you. But I never knew even 1/10th of the things you are saying until you wrote to me. --------- Nevertheless, myself and many traders have respect for your general teachings and technical knowledge and research, and believe you have contributed good overall knowledge and services to the commodities futures business. Dave ---------- That's nice to know! ---------- In many ways you have things in common with your archenemy, the late Bruce Babcock, in that you are both extremely controversial, yet both very knowledgeable and valuable assets in many ways to the commodities business as product vendors to help educate traders. Dave ----------- Dave, I didn't think of Bruce as my archenemy, even when he was alive. I was terribly disappointed in that instead of reviewing my book, which was what he called about, Bruce reviewed his impressions of me. His impressions were based entirely on his assumption that I had never traded simply because I would not and could not turn over private corporate information to him. If I have a reputation as being controversial, it is because of Bruce and his fabrication about my never having traded. You know it is an amazing thing: Bruce claimed that I learned from Ken Roberts. Joe Dinapoli claims that he taught me everything I know. SAT proclaimed he learned how to daytrade the S&P from me, now proclaims that I never traded and that what I write about I learned from him. He has come to South Africa with his seminars, and that is what he is saying. Gary Smith claims that George Angell and myself ought to be shot. At least he doesn't claim to have taught me how to trade. There are a couple of others out there who also claim to have taught me everything I know, but at the moment I can't recall who they are. Alexander Elder, at the time he was reviewing books for futures magazine called me up and asked for a review copy of 'Trading By The Book.' The book was to be returned to me when he was done with the review. The review never appeared in futures magazine, and he never returned the book. Shortly thereafter, he came out with his 'triple screen trading system.' Amazing, because in trading by the book I show a triple filtering system that is uncannily like Elders. When I wrote that book, I had never heard of Elder or his 'triple screen' thing. Elder buys my books from Traders Press and sells them to his clients. At the same time, he tells people I never have traded. In every case, the rumor that I never traded can be traced back to Bruce's review of 'Trading By The Minute' and his claim that I never traded based on my refusal to show him statements that were none of his business. Bruce acted as a self-appointed god and placed himself as both judge and jury over me. Dave, we need to end this dialogue. You now have all that I really have to say about this situation. Believe what you want to. I have told you the truth. I do the same in my books, and at my seminars. I bear no grudges towards you, Bruce, (Editor’s Note: I don’t think Bruce Babcock cares as he is now deceased!), or any of the people I've mentioned. I refuse to make their problems my own. If they feel that putting me down is the way to the top, then I feel sorry for them. It's not my way to be like that. Memories are imperfect. You are not even sure where you called, or who picked up the phone. I know that my wife would never have said what you are quoting her as Saying: i.e., that I took all money from the books and she made all her money from S&H - it's ludicrous. I know that I would never have told you that I was going to the Bahamas for cancer treatments. Such a thing would never even have entered my mind. It is a total fiction, and I never said such a thing to anyone. Dave, since I was 35 I have believed that I must answer to a higher authority. I would never jeopardize that by lying about something as serious as cancer. Whether you believe me or not, I wish you the very best that life has to offer. Think on the good things and the positive things. Let your CTCN and your website be a reflection of those, and not some sort of scandal sheet. There is plenty of worthwhile information out there. You can help people through your work. All the best, J.R. ---------- Subject: Vanilla Hook. Dear Dave, Hello. Could you please give me the definition for "vanilla hook", as it was mentioned by SAT in one of his articles. Thank you, Ian I know this is a stupid question to ask, but is your intra-day trading methodology, which you sell as a trading course, good? Thanks, Ian ----------- Hi Ian, I am not 100% sure how to define the Vanilla Hook. We do not use it and never did. P.S. By the way, of course, we consider our Real Success Course “good.” I once asked Joe Ross if we could reprint the Vanilla Hook in CTCN as published in his Book (he coined the term from what I understand) and he said NO as he said he had it Copyrighted. Dave Green ----------- Hi Dave, hanks for the info about your website and your suggestions re. The Testimonials. I will keep it in mind for the future. My primary reason for sending them to you was to give you a glimpse of the Kinds of letters I get from people --- and they are unsolicited. They were sent for your personal perusal, nothing more. Right now I'm so busy teaching that I do not have time to trade. What I do Have is someone who trades an account for me using my daily advisory ---- Traders Notebook. That frees me up to teach and train and relieves me of the market pressures. I'm getting to old to trade. I'm now 65 years old and am tired of trading an the constant stress. I am working on building an educational website and maybe we could exchange Links. By the way, the lady you spoke to a number of years ago was not my wife nor did it have anything to do with me or my wife. My wife and I had moved to The Bahamas and I literally handed Ross Trading to a fellow named Ron Watkins up in Boston. As far as I was concerned at the time, Ross Trading no longer Needed to be in business. Ron Watkins tried to make a business of selling my Books, but he failed. Ron and his wife were very rude to people and Virtually destroyed all the good PR we had built over the years with our book Distributors. At the time Ron went broke my daughter-in-law, Denise, wanted To have a small business, and so she took over the business from Ron. She Now runs Ross Trading. I am not a principal in Ross Trading any longer. It Is her business and I don't butt in. I'm sure that if you ever wanted to get Some books from her you will find Denise to be a real trooper. She's a kick In the ass to talk to and people really like her. I don't want to email your ear off, so I’ll quit. All the best, J.R. (Joe Ross) ----------- This concludes he Joe Ross emails exchanges. Very interesting and amusing also! --------------------------------------- P.S. Here are some trading links we suggest you look at: Non-Commercial No-Advertising and Free real-time non-delayed E-Mini S&P-500 chart micro-website https://www.e-mini-sp.com/ Commodity Traders Club Free Knowledge Based Primary Website https://www.webtrading.com/ The Real Success 2nd Edition Trading Course Information is here https://www.traders.org/realsuccess2.htm CTCN Club Paid Membership https://www.webtrading.com/member.htm Traders Organization Portal Guide for Daytraders https://www.traders.org Webtrading Knowledge Based Traders Search Engine https://www.webtrading.com/searchengine.htm Our Low-Cost W. D. 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The next regularly scheduled Traders Ezine will be sent in approximately 2-weeks. All the best, Dave Green