Dear Trading Friend, As a reminder, you are getting email from webtrading.com and CTCN because you either once asked to go on this list, or requested info on a trading related subject we normally cover via this communications method, or you are a client of ours. Of course, you may opt-out the list at any time if for some reason you do not find this free trading knowledge useful. Hi Lorique and thanks for the advice and feedback. Here is my statement on the issues you have raised. Your original email to CTCN on this appears below my own: Before Bruce Babcock passed away I spoke a number of times to him and he swore his Joe Ross Report we now have online (with his permission) was totally accurate. He also said he actually liked Joe and thought some of his trading methodology was good and valuable, though Joe's books were overpriced and Joe's own background and trading record was false or exaggerated. Upon review at the time, Bruce's article on Joe seemed to make sense and have a definite ring of truth to it (based on the evidence Bruce presented), though no one except Joe Ross knows the absolute truth with certainty. Personally, I have always respected Joe a lot and still do to this day, except for the one incident I had with him, referred to next. I only had one run-in with Joe Ross. It was a number of years ago when I called to order 10 of his (very high priced) books (both for myself and for some client orders). Joe's wife wanted to charge an incredible excessive shipping charge for each book individually, though they were being shipped UPS Ground as one package. The shipping charge she asked for was (if I recall right), more than two hundred dollars, though the true cost was only about 10% of that! When I complained to Joe about the excessive fee (mostly on the principals involved) Joe said sorry I have to pay it as that is how his wife earns her income (from their excessive shipping fees) on their orders. An amazing admission but at least he was truthful about it! I told them unless they charged a fair shipping charge I would not place the order. They refused and lost my order which I think was for over two thousand dollars, what with the 10 or so books being priced quite high, I think averaging close to $200 per book! Unfortunately, CTCN's general mission is to report to the public all important trading news, both the positives and the negatives. We are not the Police and have no investigative staff or budget for it, and also have no authority or credentials to investigate even if we wanted to try it. Plus, how do we know for sure what the truth is even if we could investigate it, after all we may be wrong in our evaluation of the "truth" of article content. What do you want us to do about this Joe Ross Special Report we have online here https://www.webtrading.com/ross.htm It was written by both Joe for CTCN, and the second part by Bruce Babcock. It was not written by myself but only published in CTCN. Should we allow you and a few others to be behind our removing it from our website so others are not allowed to read it, with no real evidence it is wrong or unjust, other than some assertions? We have also run into this problem with several unfriendly emails from unidentified people objecting to our publishing the Ken Roberts Special Report https://www.webtrading.com/ken-roberts.htm though it was written by an unrelated (to me - but with the same last name) contributing author for Forbes Magazine. These emails objecting to it may have been from Ken Roberts' employees for all I know, as they were anonymous. This situation is similar to the Futures Truth negatives we have online. We have asked both John R. Hill and George Pruitt of Futures Truth to rebut all the accusations about their Top-10 Trading Systems publications are of little or no value. This is based on the alleged fact few if any traders ever achieve results even close to what FT was reporting to the public. However, after numerous invitations (both verbal and in writing) FT refuses to discuss this issue and give their side of the story. Therefore, there is little we can do but keep on reporting the accusations as there is no contrary evidence. We ask both Joe Ross and Ken Roberts (and anyone else) to rebut what was said. They can refute any of the individual issues or as an alternative speak in general terms. We will publish what they have to say and if in fact their rebuttals make sense or seem sincere we will also voluntarily remove the negative articles or reports. Perhaps you (Lorique) could prevail upon Joe Ross to rebut what Babcock said. We sure would appreciate it as we would like nothing better than to publish any rebuttals. By the way, we try to publish more positives than negatives. If you scan our website Search Engine https://www.webtrading.com/links/searchengine.htm you will also find lots of positives on these parties in addition to any negatives. I agree with you about Joe (and also Ken Roberts and Futures Truth too) making some positive contributions to futures trading over the years, so it's far from lots of negatives as you seem to imply. In fact, the negatives on our website (though they get considerable publicity) are in a fairly insignificant minority, as the vast majority of webtrading.com content is positive in its nature. Thanks for your interest and feedback. All the best, Dave Green www.webtrading.com In reply to the letter below: Hello David, You will never guess who this is, (but I do know you quite well). I can't reveal my true identity as my employers would be compromised. David, I have just had the misfortune to read the most vile, vituperative, slanderous, libelous diatribe upon which I have ever had the misfortune to cast my eyes. I therefore need to tell you that your website is becoming, shall we say, "more than a little over the top"? It is beginning to smack of the sort of Murdoch "Tabloid Journalism" at its worst, that we have come to experience in this land. What will be the next thing David, will we be subjected to "page three boobs" in CTCN. I refer, of course, to the "Special Report # 10: The Joe Ross Report". David, before you print this sort of rubbish, you should at least investigate the facts. Moreover, this particular piece was written many years ago by someone whose nick name, I believe with some justification, was "Babblecock", and who has long since departed for nether regions. David, you really should know better than to repeat this sort of muck and hold it out as truth and justice. If you throw excrement, it tends to stick on ones hands as well as defiling the recipient. David, I expected more from you than this. I have noticed the tone of your website has become more strident and rabid over the past year or so. This particular piece of literary filth would do justice to Goebbels elaborating on Churchill's shortcomings. Dave, it is really disgusting, and lowers the whole tone of your, until recently, excellent publication. You see David, I happen to know the full, true story behind Joe Ross. Unfortunately, the man that I know is totally different to the one who is described in your article. I also know the story behind Mr. Babcock, and Dr Alexander Elder, who also sprouts this bile whenever he has the chance. I suggest you contact Joe to find out the truth of the matter, and perhaps then you might do the decent thing and print a prominent retraction. To be kind, Mr. Babcock tended to handle the truth rather carelessly. The other matter upon which I should like to take issue is Trading Systems. While you disparage other sellers of systems, you are still selling systems yourself. IF your systems are so good, why don't you give up with the newsletter and just go and trade your systems, and make all the money you could ever hope to squander on your lusts? David, something doesn't ring true here. I have been a subscriber because I was under the impression that I might be presented with responsible journalism. As a good friend of mine in Australia said to me recently, "Lorique, believe nothing you hear, very little of what you read, and about half of what you see with your own eyes. On top of that, assume nothing, and trust nobody. Everybody is guilty until proved innocent". Sound advice. I can only say that I don't sell trading systems, I just trade them, and nothing would convince me to reveal my methods for ANY sum of money no matter how large. I would then have my trading records under scrutiny and I know that the people, for who I trade would never sanction such a thing, which is Joe's reason as well. If I failed to disclose my trading records, I would then leave myself open to the sort of denigration that incompetent journalists would heap upon me. Anyway, Why give away something that takes years of hard work and discipline to hone into a useable tool. The interesting thing is that even if I did reveal my methods, no one would take them seriously anyway as they are so absolutely simple. You see, the secret is the discipline and experience and the application, not the actual method or system. That is what Mr. Babcock and his ilk can never appreciate. What I can also tell you is that Joe Ross' methods work! Joe does have his own special reasons for trying to impart his vast experience, and it is certainly not money. One reason is that he is in his mid sixties, and has been on the "other side". Go to his website, read the letter that is on there, and then go and talk to the man instead of denigrating him with tripe written by a totally incompetent journalist. Joe has made all the money anyone could want to spend in one lifetime, and is a very humble man of modest and sober habits. But as he has said, "...if you give things away, people don't appreciate them!" I have to agree with him. What Joe has to offer far exceeds what most of the "System Sellers" do, even the ones that actually work. David, for the sake of those who are not as experienced, nor as knowledgeable as I, lift your game. It does you no credit at all to grovel in nightsoil. After this little episode, I doubt if I could ever really believe a word of what is written in your newsletter. Your erstwhile admirer, Adieu, Lorique